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Post by Rusty on Dec 2, 2008 0:56:23 GMT -6
Ok my son is learning drums,and he is just watching youtube videos,ect.He is actually a natural if there ever was,but we have no way of knowing how to tune the drums.Now the toms and snare are pretty good sounding,but the bass drum sounds tin and shallow.What can I do to improve the sound of the drum and get a deeper thump from it? They are just a cheap set of CB700's and I know it's a limited.But I think it could sound a lot better with a little work.
It has both heads on it,and a small pillow inside to help deaden it.It sounds better with the pillow in there.
thanks
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Post by vanman on Dec 2, 2008 2:59:43 GMT -6
Drums are like archery. You can use an average bow to shoot a quality arrow with accuracy but even the best bos isn't going to shoot a lousy arrow. I say that to ask what type of heads are on the bass. If they are factory or stock heads then you might not, with cb700's be getting the most out of the drum possible. Without knowing what you have I'd hazard a recommendation of going with Evans EMAD2 batter head with a corresponding EMAD resonant head. Now these have muffling rings with them that may allow you to loose the pillow just depending upon the sound you are going for. You want less muffling then there are the Evans EQ series heads, the EQ2 has some muffling, less than the EQ3, etc. but you don't want to spend all that money experimenting. What is nice about the EMAD system is that they come with removable, interchangeable muffling rings. I have the EMAD2 with the smaller of the 2 provided rings installed for example. As for tuning of the drum a basic rule I follow is tune the batter head for stick response and the resonant head for pitch. My brother and I like a tight head on the toms so I get the most stick response possible. As for bass you want that deep tone. Your son has a double pedal so he is like getting his speed pedal technique with one stroke per foot- he may not be getting into double stroke technique with the bass pedal so you may be able to sacrifice batter head tension and get a deeper pitch out of the drum. Basically tune that head facing him (the batter head) to where it has tension but if you were to turn it on its side and hit it with a stick it wouldn't be so tight to give the stick a lot of bounce like the snare head likely does. Many drummers then tune the other head (resonant head) pretty loose. You certainly don't want any wrinkles in the head so tighten it up just to the point where those wrinkles vanish, then maybe a little tighter. I think you'd be well off to spend a little money on new heads assuming you don't have the EMADS because ultimatly you've be able to experiment around to find what works best for you. I'll check back later and see if you mention what heads you have, etc. to maybe modify my recommendation, and as always, whether you go with Remo or Aquarian or Evans, Etc. you are going to have comparable quality products- I simply prefer Remo and Aquarian and what I have on with any given change of heads varies on what I'm wanting to do at that time. As much as your son plays I wouldn't be suprised at needing to change them out every year or two. That all depends on how hard they are played- how often, etc. Generally I'd expect yearly changeou t on the batter heads at least for best performance (then again I'm going on a couple years with my current set at home
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Post by Rusty on Dec 2, 2008 3:19:22 GMT -6
It has an old remo resonant on one side and an attack on the other.The batter does have a ring made on the inside of it,but it doesn't seem to make much difference in control. Now I replaced all the tom heads last year with remos,but the snare and the bass are prolly due a change out.
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Post by vanman on Dec 2, 2008 5:49:52 GMT -6
if the resonant head is pretty old it could use a changeout as well. I dampen the resonant head on my kit but leave the batter head free of any pillows, etc. it has the ring which works just fine for my tastes. I'm not familiar with the Attack brand heads so you might need to wait for another poster or just call The Percussion Shop, GC or Palen, etc. and see what they would recommend in that brand if thats what you wanted. Aquarian makes killer snare heads, just depending on your sons needs w/ or w/o "dots" under the head. I do brushwork and the coating on their snare heads lasts much longer than any of the other makers that I have tried- keeping in mind I haven't tried them all.
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Post by vanman on Dec 2, 2008 5:54:24 GMT -6
google "drum tuning bible" and check it out. Also check out, under the same google search, the selection from learngospelmusic.com. It has some good stuff from a different perspective, the first being a studio situation and the second being a touring scenario. I apologize for these links but tuning how to's have some good general rules, I just don't have a good summary quickie guide. Other drummers will likely post on this issue and the web has plenty of good resources
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Post by junkman306 on Dec 2, 2008 13:29:28 GMT -6
It has an old remo resonant on one side and an attack on the other.The batter does have a ring made on the inside of it,but it doesn't seem to make much difference in control. Now I replaced all the tom heads last year with remos,but the snare and the bass are prolly due a change out. I just purchased an Evans EMAD2 batter head for my CB drums bass and I will tell you it's the best purchase ever. I'm using the bigger of the 2 foam rings and the stock CB resonant head with a mic hole. It's absolutely perfect! I want to get the EMAD resonant head at some point, but the EMAD batter head is the difference between night and day. ;D
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Post by Rusty on Dec 2, 2008 15:30:46 GMT -6
Ok junkman I may have to get a emad for this kit. He is after the BIG THUMP! and I can't get it with this setup,maybe a whole new head kit for the drums will help.
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Post by junkman306 on Dec 2, 2008 15:39:33 GMT -6
Ok junkman I may have to get a emad for this kit. He is after the BIG THUMP! and I can't get it with this setup,maybe a whole new head kit for the drums will help. It took away the thud you get with a pillow inside and added a great low end tone without the excessive overtones and ringing. Now, I know nothing about tuning or anything. I just kinda followed some basic internet instructions and it came out perfect!
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FUNKMASTER J
Soundman
Why are they called "apartments" when their stuck "together"[Mo0:8]
Posts: 96
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Post by FUNKMASTER J on Dec 2, 2008 17:30:50 GMT -6
All sound advice Rusty. I perfer the aquarian superlick 2 head to the emad I have a lighty used one you can have. just drop me a line if you want it. If Rusty dont want it, I will give it to whoever else may want it.
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Post by Rusty on Dec 2, 2008 20:06:34 GMT -6
I'll take the head,we'll have to work out a deal to get it.
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Post by vanman on Dec 3, 2008 1:51:28 GMT -6
There you go, problem solved and everyone is happy Just a note for those who maynot know- the really nice thing about the aquarian heads (I don't use them exclusively BTW) is the manner in which the mylar type material attaches to the rim- there are not glue joints to have to bust. If you are a heavy hitter and bust heads frequently (there maybe other problems to solve here but...) you can seat the new Aquarians, tension them up and you are ready to go, assuming you change them often enough to ballpark the right tension. Mark them with a sharpie aligning the mark to the vent on the drum so in a pinch they'll reseat more properly and then after the show, at home- go on and put a new skin on that you normally like to use. Just a thought
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Post by Rusty on Dec 3, 2008 2:14:16 GMT -6
I'm glad I'm a guitar player,drums have lots of maintinence issues..lol
Do you play a different set of heads at home than at a show? I always thought you just played them till it was time to swap them out for new ones.
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Post by vanman on Dec 3, 2008 2:32:16 GMT -6
I play what is on my kit till they need replacing or I change my mind. For example, a few years ago I was in more of a jazz mood overall. Now I have a different kit to play on at church so that one is set up for that and what I have at home can be for my own tastes. For the jazz mood I went with Aquarian coated double thins. I don't know if they market these anymore- haven't checked lately. They are 2 ply heads for strength but as advertised, thinner. You get more high end out of the drums but not overly so (coated heads help with that over clear heads). Right now I've been playing Evans coated G2's- these are on the toms BTW- my metal snare I keep ramped up on tension with the Basic Aquarian snare head, can't recall what its named off hand, and I keep the bass with the EMAD. The G2's are a thicker 2 ply accentuating more of the mid tones- can get a nice warm tone w/o the high end ringing. Now contrast that for those who like a really low end punch- that doesn't suit my purposes so I have little experience there but I imagine someone might go with the Evans hydraulic heads that are fluid filled between the 2 plies. And as always- each maker has similar products to meet individual needs- I just pick on Evans because they are one of the more popular and I currently use them. I would imagine you have similar issues with what strings to use, maybe you periodically changeout effects or even pick-ups. You could lament the woes of a tortured guitarist and the search for the perfect sound just as well as a drummer I'm certain
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whiskeyisme
Beginner
I like to play *ting[Mo0:8]
Posts: 20
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Post by whiskeyisme on Dec 3, 2008 11:30:55 GMT -6
After 15 years of playing drums, I've narrowed my heads down to these. I play hard and mostly to really loud rock/metal. These heads have the best tone, attack and warmth while not ringing at all. Get some Evans EC2's for the tom heads, Evans ST-Dry for the snare and Evans EMAD2 for the bass drum. You'll never need a muffle ring, pad, tape, or a pillow every again. Evans EC2 Clear (for toms)....use coated for lighter style of play www.evansdrumheads.com/EVProducts.aspx?ID=1&CLASS=RDJAEvans St Dry for snare www.evansdrumheads.com/EVProducts.aspx?ID=1&CLASS=RCPKEvans EMAD2 www.evansdrumheads.com/EVProducts.aspx?ID=1&CLASS=RAALAs far as tuning...there are tuning workshops at local stores like The Percussion Shop at Walnut and Jefferson and at Guitar Center. Contact the stores for their next workshop. You can also find great instructional YouTube videos if need be.
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whiskeyisme
Beginner
I like to play *ting[Mo0:8]
Posts: 20
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Post by whiskeyisme on Dec 3, 2008 11:32:22 GMT -6
oh, and as far as replacing.
no one here is on world tour...no one needs to replace heads once a week or play different heads at a show than at practice...unless you like wasting money. if you need new heads, get new heads.
idealy you should replace top heads once a month and bottom heads once every quarter. snare depends on playing style.
thanks to the economy i can ony replace my heads two or three times a year. dammit!
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